UPDATE: This article was written in 2016. I’ve since written an updated review using the same Mac Pro and Windows 10 Fall Creators Update, available here.
Apple, for some reason, stops Boot Camp support early for Intel-based Macintosh computers. I frankly don’t understand it. It’s so easy to support newer Windows versions, as the burden (much like Linux) gets absorbed into the kernel.
I don’t know one Mac with an Intel CPU that can’t run Windows 10 well. Though I’m sure there is… the real key, is how to do it.
With the Mac Pro’s – it’s more tricky than you would think. The MacPro1,1 and MacPro2,1 have EFI that is so buggy it’s not even worth using for anything other than OS X. On those machines, you want to use Boot Camp’s Compatibility Support Module (CSM) to switch into BIOS mode.
With the MacPro4,1 and MacPro5,1 – those are the first truly UEFI complaint systems. Those you want to install any OS in UEFI mode. Even if Boot Camp wants to do it otherwise… you’re probably better off in UEFI mode anyways.
Third Time’s The Charm?
Did the MacPro3,1 absolve Apple’s EFI sins previously? Almost.
Running Ubuntu in UEFI mode on the Early 2008 Mac Pro works fine. Linux has accommodated Apple’s older, more buggy, EFI implementations of this era. They actually work quite well.
Windows… is another story. Combined with the Radeon HD 2600XT that is standard in these machines, and you have a pair that is quite unstable. Even with a newer GPU, I got resolution glitches and other issues in UEFI mode.
When I throttled Windows 10 back to the CSM, that’s when things came into place.
How to Do It Properly
Burn Windows 10 to DVD. Use the Media Creation Tool on a Windows PC. On your Mac, forego creating a Boot Camp flash drive. Just tell it you want to install Windows 7 or later (the Early 2008 Mac Pro should say install Windows 7 – it uses an older Boot Camp workflow). Insert the Windows 10 DVD. Partition using the Boot Camp Assistant.
Proceed through the Windows 10 install as if you were following the Windows 7 Boot Camp guide.
When Windows 10 installs, bypass any boot options that say EFI Boot. Choose “Windows” when holding the option key every time. That “Windows” text is actually a hard-coded target to load the Mac in BIOS/CSM mode. Even if you install Linux in BIOS mode, it’ll say “Windows” when you hold the option key.
If you have installed a PCIe card for SSDs (bypassing the 1.5Gbps bottleneck on the built-in SATA ports), I have some bad news. I couldn’t boot Windows 10 in BIOS/CSM mode after installing Windows 10 onto my PCIe SSD. This despite the card having a BIOS driver. What I did instead, was installed Windows 10 to one of the primary SATA drives, and then used my PCIe SSD as target for programs to install onto, and virtual memory storage as well – both I configured in Windows post-install.
Post-Install Work
Once you install, you are probably feeling naked without that Boot Camp tool suite in Windows. Well, don’t. Aside from not having to hold down the option key to toggle operating systems… you aren’t missing out on anything. On the Mac Pro, the only thing you need is to install the Audio driver.
If you go to Device Manager, all objects are accounted for. Wouldn’t it be nice if it were that simple?
Unfortunately, the Mac Pro’s built-in speaker is silent. The default Windows 10 driver won’t speak to it… literally.
You want the Realtek High Definition Audio Driver, straight from Realtek’s web site. Version 4.27 R2.79 is what I used.
One more problem, Bluetooth. This is the one nut that I haven’t been able to crack without a bypass. For some reason, the Mac Pro’s built-in Bluetooth doesn’t enumerate at all. It doesn’t show up as an errored device, nor does it show up as an unknown device. Hence, I can’t even try to feed it a driver. This is particularly odd since it shows up in Windows 7 properly.
Using a USB Bluetooth dongle will give you newer Bluetooth LE and a unique MAC address set so pairing don’t get screwed up with your OS X pairings.
With that last step, you should have a fully-functional MacPro3,1 on Windows 10. Enjoy!
UPDATE: This article was written in 2016. I’ve since written an updated review using the same Mac Pro and Windows 10 Fall Creators Update, available here.
Thanks for a great article! Perfect step by step instructions. Installing windows 10 right now on my Mac Pro 🙂
Hi Christopher, firstly, the install works perfectly. I just wanted to ask you further about what you were saying on ssds – I’m about to install an 3.5″ hybrid in my Mac Pro (I have a caddy that slides into the original hard drive slots on the side) – Will this work with windows 10?
Yes, the caddy will work fine. It just passes through the SATA connection.
The only downside is that MacPro3,1 still used SATA-II, so newer SSDs may run slower when connected to the drive ports. But you’ll be far better off using them as PCIe SATA adapters have issues with the Boot Camp CSM.
That said, I wouldn’t go bargain bin hunting for a SATA-II SSD. A SATA-III SSD has newer technology and will seek faster and perform better, even in a SATA-II drive bay like our Mac Pro’s.
In fact, I recommend today installing Windows onto a second drive anyways… skip the boot camp partitioning and just dedicate the drive to Windows.
Is posible to install windows from a usb stick whiout osx in the machine?
While it’s possible, I don’t recommend it. You should at least install OS X at least once on a MacPro3,1 to check for available EFI and SMC firmware updates.
Those firmware updates impact performance in other operating systems, like Windows. They can only be installed from inside OS X. Apple Software Update (the Mac App Store in later versions) can do this check automatically.
Since writing this article, newer Realtek audio drivers have been released. I am using the latest revision from the Realtek website – as described in this article, and it’s still working well.
I’ve since upgraded the GPU to a Radeon HD 6850, which I self-flashed with Mac EFI BIOS. Works great in macOS, but I am getting periodic crashes in Windows. Still diagnosing – the only pain-point I can find is that the PCIe link is reporting 8x, despite being in Slot 1 (x16), even when stress-tested.
I may re-attempt to install Windows 10 UEFI with Version 1703 (Creators Update) and see if that improves the PCIe link rate. One advantage to the HD 6850 (from the factory HD 2600) is a much more modern AMD driver (though since it’s not DX12, AMD has said there won’t be further driver updates).
Update: Just after posting this, I totally forgot that Microsoft noted that Version 1703 has a known UEFI bug with all Mac models, and can only be installed by updating from 1607 (Anniversary Update).
Ironically the top item on my blog currently: https://www.christopherprice.net/psa-dont-clean-install-windows-10-creators-update-on-a-mac-with-boot-camp-4072.html
I can at least confirm the MacPro3,1 is most certainly affected by this bug 🙂
Off to go dig up v1607 and flash it onto a flash drive.
Have you installed it in EFI mode again? I have successfully installed windows 10 onto a 2009 MacBook 5,2 in EFI mode working perfectly in AHCI mode. The “IDE mode” that apple imposes on the Mac Pro in CSM is hindering me very much, and I’m strongly considering reinstalling using EFI. I will be using a PC non-flashed GTX 1060. I just wanted to see exactly what issues I might end up with since you said you’re going to try again.
Have not tried in EFI mode again. I presume a 5,1/5,2 Mac Pro would fare much better than a 3,1 in EFI mode.
As this article implies, I was trying to justify it as a Windows PC, but a Haswell desktop is simply faster (than a base 3,1)… and for reasons I’d rather forget… I have a ton of Haswell desktops I can’t seem to get rid of.
So I’m not actively testing Windows with Mac Pro today. Linux, same deal. Today, my Mac Pro runs Snow Leopard, Mavericks, El Capitan, and soon High Sierra. One Mac OS/macOS era for each HDD/SSD.
Thanks for the writeup – I’ve just installed Win10 on my 2008 Mac Pro following your instructions. I hate to think how long it would have taken me to fix the audio issue without this.
If you don’t have an existing PC to run Media Creation Tool, you can convert a .iso image to a .cdr image and make a bootable DVD from that. See https://discussions.apple.com/thread/5132196?tstart=0
Hello i have a mac pro early 2008 with OSX Yosemite 10.10.5
Was trying to follow your instruction (but don’t have a PC to run Media Creation too) so burned a converted iso image to CDR image of windows 10.
BootCamp gives a message that i need windows 8 installation CD and does’nt allow me to proceed with the installation.
Do you think it doesn’t allow me to proceed cause did’nt made DVD with Media Creation Tool?
Thanks so much for your help
I would borrow a more-current macOS (Sierra/High Sierra) computer and use that to create the DVD from. The latest Boot Camp should do the conversion of the latest Windows 10 properly. Then burn that image to disc, and try it in the Mac Pro. For CSM booting, that should do the trick.
Hi,
I have a Mac Pro 3,1 (early 2008) and I followed your instructions on how to install Windows 10 and it works. But now no matter what I try to do I cannot get back to Mac OS. I’ve tried holding down option key at startup, tried holding down command and r to boot recovery OS and that does not work either. What am I missing?
So… don’t panic yet but the top reason this happens is someone accidentally tells Windows to wipe and install the partition that Mac OS X is installed on. A Mac’s firmare is very resilient at sniffing out a Mac OS X boot partition, even if the boot (GPT) partition is screwed up.
First try zapping the PRAM. Hold Command-Option-P-R when booting. The boot will chime again. Continue holding it until you hear four boot chimes, then release.
Next try booting Recovery Mode if your Mac OS X version includes it, by holding Command-R when booting.
If that doesn’t work, you’ll need a boot disc or to use FireWire to connect to another Mac to diagnose the filesystem (or since it’s a Mac Pro, extract the drive and connect it to another computer). We need to see what filesystems are present on the drive, and that’s the only way left to do it.
Newer Mac Pro units do have a firmware recovery mode, that will boot Mac OS from a Wi-Fi source over the web, but Internet Recovery is not available on tower Mac Pro models.
Hello Christopher
I have rather off topic question, but you seem like the guy that can answer it!! Do you think that I could install Win 7 64bit on my Mac Pro 3.1 in a separate SSD using EFI boot instead of hybrid MBR?
Thanks in advance
Costas
I wouldn’t do it on a 3,1. From my experience the 3,1 is not UEFI compatible. Windows 10 got better at handling GPT installs in BIOS mode – specifically for devices like this one. But it still didn’t backport the firmware to EFI 1.x from UEFI 2.0.
Apple on the other hand embraced UEFI later on, so the cylinder Mac Pros can do UEFI booting – and that would probably work on them.
thank you for this article 🙂
answered a few questions i had, will be trying it out
When I installed Win 7 on my MacPro3,1 (back when Win 7 was still kind of a thing), I installed it on a separate SSD. I don’t remember the steps on how I did it but that is how I ran Win 7 on it. I am now attempting to install Win 10 on the same computer, but without any macOS remaining. I have other newer Macs for my day to day Mac work.